Doing Feminism - Latest Comments in Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

hysperia — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:45:24 -0000

Feminist politics IS about keeping human beings safe. Women being ... yes ... you've GOT it ... HUMAN BEINGS. That would be autonomous human beings ... often ADULTS ... who do not need to be told to lock their doors and windows you humongous, flying spaghetti monster concern troll. I really, really LIKE it up here on my high horse and I ain't climbin' down. When's the last time you left your DOOR open? This response is simply, clearly, absolutely INSULTING and INFANTILIZING. And it's meant to make concerned trolls like you feel like you're doing something when you're actually doing ABSOLUTELY zip-all NADDA NOTHING.
This has EVERYTHING to do with men and women. If rape isn't about feminist politics, what in the name of all that's good and lovely do you think feminist politics is about?

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Hobbes — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:30:55 -0000

I am acting "rude" because I have been treated with derision and dismissiveness for daring to point out the gaping, massive flaws in your logic.

You miss the point entirely with your second paragraph, as per usual. I have never claimed to have some kind of "formula" for avoiding rape. However, locking one's doors- among other precautions- is a simple and easy method to reduce risk IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE. And for some reason, you and others here find it offensive that the police or other media should make this- among other precautions- known to the general public. That is what this whole debate is about, nothing else. To say that "that's the most original solution to rape I have ever heard" is completely off the mark and utterly irrelevent. Just because it isn't "original" dooesn't mean it can't help. And you and the others seem to have a problem with the public knowing this. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEN OR WOMEN. THIS IS ABOUT GIVING A GROUP OF PEOPLE THE KNOWLEDGE TO REDUCE THE RISK OF BECOMING THE VICTIM OF A PERSON THAT HAS TARGETED THEM.

Get off your high horse. This isn't feminist politics, this is about keeping human beings safe.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

hysperia — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:02:51 -0000

You are simply, totally offensive. You're rude, condescending, arrogant and suitably baffled. Anyone who chose to take more than a few minutes to engage with you would be WASTING THEIR TIME.

Women should lock their doors? Wow. That's the most original solution to the problem of rape I've ever heard. lol your nuts

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Hobbes — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:01:15 -0000

Oh, and I would say that the tips the police are providing in this case are appropriate.

I personally would advise women to be on the lookout for suspicious people, especially at night (I would also extend this to men, simply because they should be reporting anything suspicious; however, since women would be the ones in danger it's especially important for them). Perhaps suggesting a curfew is a little unrealistic, but I would certainly suggest that women lock their doors, if they aren't doing so already. People likely lock their doors anyway- just because it's a good idea in general- but under the current circumstances it's more important for women- especially women living alone. Locking one's door is kind of a "duh" move, but to be especially safe I would suggest (just suggest), that women lock their windows, unless it makes the house too warm or something like that.

I really am baffled as to how anyone could find offense in what I have just said.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Hobbes — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:29:18 -0000

This is ridiculous.

Since the last post I made as "GRad" (the 26th), I have recieved:

a. a snide comment from Jezebella directed at exactly two words in my original post, completely skipping the main body;

b. a comment from hysperia telling me to "read a book";

c. a comment from Bridget telling me to "stop trolling";

d. and yours.

Why don't you start telling me exactly why I am so wrong and ignorant?

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

monika — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:27:05 -0000

By the way, GRad, there have been many "well thought out" responses to your posts. Whether or not you agree with them, that is another thing.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

monika — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:25:42 -0000

GRad,

What "prevention" tips do you believe are helpful to women?

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Hobbes — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:14:27 -0000

By the way, I am GRad, in case that wasn't clear.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Hobbes — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:17:21 -0000

...

... I'm not trolling. I spent a solid amount of time typing up a well-thought-out response to reasoning that I find flawed. As a response all I get is snide comments directed at minor points (jezebella) and statements such as "ur ignorant lol" and "u dunt no wut ur talking about haha!" Who's trolling again?

I'm sorry if I came off as rude, but it's frustrating.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Bridget — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:47:42 -0000

Dude, if you have a problem with how feminists discuss things, how about you stop trolling feminist sites?

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Hobbes — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:32:46 -0000

Yet again, I see no response to the body of my arguement, which is typical of feminists.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

hysperia — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:16:58 -0000

And you Hobbes, if you were truly interested in engaging in a respectful conversation with women and feminists, WOULD GO READ A FUCKING BOOK before you try, because you're much too ignorant for it right now. Try Feminism 101. If you're really interested. Which I doubt very much.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Hobbes — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:11:43 -0000

How about you address the actual body of my post inside of focusing on a random aside, hmm?

I disagree based on lifetime observation. Women face an elevated risk of sexual assault, but to say that you engage in "security" that is "beyond my imagination" daily, is quite simply ludicrous.

Get over yourself.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Jezebella — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:27:54 -0000

"[quote]We practice the kind of security that men cannot *possibly* imagine{/quote}

I disagree."

How nice for you.

If you are a man, you really have no idea what we face, what kind of calculus of security we engage every single day of our lives, whether there's a serial rapist in town or not. You may "disagree", but you're still lacking a clue. Which is evidenced by your absolute inability to see how the media focus on women's behaviour is victim-blaming hogwash. It's time for the media to focus on men's behaviour - and how the serial rapist's is on the same continuum as grab-assing, verbal harassment, violent pornography, and acquaintance rape. It is merely an escalation of the more usual fare, which doesn't get nearly the media attention it should. Why? Because women are blamed and blamed again for the crimes perpetrated against them, from the "minor" to the fatal. Men, on the other hand, are rarely, if ever, encouraged to question their complicity in a culture in which sexual violence is so prevalent.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

GRad — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:32:46 -0000

[quote]We practice the kind of security that men cannot *possibly* imagine{/quote}

I disagree.

pheeno:

Your post does not make sense. For one, the guidelines that have been posted are NOT restrictions, they are simply advisements. There is no law that says women HAVE to lock their doors, be in by 6pm, etc. They are simply things that women can CHOOSE to abide by to possibly lower their chances of becoming a victim of the rapist.

Your suggestion about the "guidelines for men" is a bit ridiculous. Ignoring the fact that it would be unconstitutional, as I said before, they would not in fact be restrictions. By all means, post these guidelines for men as well; it would be useless, though, because men would not be required to abide by them and very few would CHOOSE to- since they are in no danger and they would KNOW they themselves are not the Garneau rapist. Certainly the rapist himself wouldn't abide by these guidelines.

When you say that "having a list of things, for women to do gives the rapist something to use against her", what do you mean? I'm not really sure how a woman locking her door would give the assaulter a "weapon" against her. How exactly would he "use this against her?"

Furthermore, I completely disagree that this serial rapist has NOT raised the danger of assault in this relatively small neighborhood. Furthermore, disregarding this, the danger of assault BY A STRANGER has certainly spiked. With this understood, there are very, very clear guidelines that women can CHOOSE to apply to help lower the chances of assault BY A STRANGER.

For the third time, this is being treated no differently than a murder case. Women are the only ones in danger here, so guidelines are being targeted as- GASP- women!

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

intransigentia — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:25:30 -0000

[quote]Should we do so, we would essentially live at home under house arrest wearinga muumuu[/quote]

Still wouldn't be good enough. The asshole is, after all, gaining access to women inside their homes, and muumuus are easy access garments. If we really want to be safe we'll need to lock ourselves in bank vaults while wearing space suits. Anything else would be half-measures that a sufficiently determined individual could conceivably break through.

What we as women really need - short of the obvious catching the rapist and changing culture so rape is unthinkable - is information that would let us react to /the specific situation/ instead of an amorphous terror. Which, incidentally, would probably also help the public tip off the police to catch him. Stuff like what time of day he has been striking and how he gains entry to homes. Whether there have been suspicious person reports preceding the attacks, and what the suspicious person was doing. Whether he travels on foot or bike or car. A description of the perp beyond "5'9" and wearing dark clothing". A description of his vehicle if he has one.

A public armed with that kind of information might be a bit less "not my problem" when they see a stranger up to something not quite usual, if they knew what they were looking for, and call the cops more readily.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Jezebella — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:35:42 -0000

It seems to me that these articles with "safety tips" are only so much Security Theater. Reminding women to lock our doors is about as practical as forcing airline travelers to remove their shoes for scanning. It is an absolute waste of time, and it gives the appearance that those in authority are Doing Something Useful. Safety Tips of this sort are in fact, Not Useful. We have heard them a thousand times, we practice the kind of daily security that your average man cannot *possibly* imagine, and yet women are still being raped and assaulted.

It also, as others have noted, focused on women's behavior instead of men's, as though we are at fault when we have not followed the safety tips. Should we do so, we would essentially live at home under house arrest wearing a muumuu. This is not acceptable. I second Pheenobarbidoll's suggestion that men's movements should be limited until such time as it is safe for women to leave the house when men are out and about. It's really the only logical solution.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

pheenobarbidoll — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:24:49 -0000

GRad:

There are some very easy guidelines men could adhere to until the "high" danger has passed.

Such as but not limited to

Staying indoors after 6pm

Only leaving the house with a buddy

Since the rapist in question is a man, then men can be the ones restricted to safety guidelines.

Also, having a list of things women "should" do to be safe means you now have a list of things to use against a woman if the rapist succeeds in attacking her.

A woman doesn't fail to protect herself, the rapist succeeds in raping her.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Bridget — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:53:48 -0000

The reality is that telling women to protect themselves does not address the cause of the crime. If an offender is breaking into homes, how does telling women to stay off the streets or even lock up their homes help if the offender is forcibly gaining entry? And telling women what they must do to "prevent" rape places the accountability for the crime on the survivors, rather than the perpetrators. For the women who've been through this experience, this tells them that society sees this as their fault.

In reality, the rate of sexual assault in the city has not significantly increased because of this offender being on the loose. Sexual assault occurs every single day, and 85% of victims know their assailant. Telling women to avoid strangers and find someone to protect them doesn't help, since they are most likely to be assaulted by someone they know and trust. The sad reality is that there is far more danger from acquaintances, friends, partners and family members than there ever is from a stranger on the street.

And the notion that "Sometimes women are blame for the act because they are “wearing provocative dress,” ‘they were promiscous anyway” or something like that" is false. Dressing in a given manner or even seeking sex is not the same as looking to be sexually assaulted. Whether a woman has many consensual sexual experiences or none has nothing to do with her right to bodily autonomy and personal safety. Every person has the right to say no. And women are assaulted in sweatpants or pyjamas, not just miniskirts. When perpetrators are interviewed and are asked what the victim was wearing, they generally cannot recall a single detail of the survivor's clothing, not even the colour.

In reality, tips are a way of controlling women's lives, not preventing sexual assault. If we really were interested in stopping men from assaulting women, we'd tell men that they shouldn't go out alone at night, seeing as that's when the perpetrator is committing these crimes. Why are we controlling the actions of potential targets and not potential offenders? Seems a little backwards to me.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

GRad — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:35:46 -0000

I understand what you're saying, I think. But I'm referring to serial cases- such as this one, in which there is a person out there repeatedly assaulting seemingly random women. Because of this one guy, the danger of rape has suddenly spiked in this particular area, and, considering this man would be a stranger, there are very clear guidelines that women can follow to lower the likelihood of themselves becoming a victim- at least until the high danger has passed.

If the Garneau neighborhood was not in a crisis right now, then I would agree that we ought not to post these guidelines, as they refer specifically to strangers. But there is a time when that must be put aside- certain "red alert" situations in which guidelines such as these are appropriate.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

monika — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:46:38 -0000

It goes beyond just this rapist, however. We live in a culture that perpetuates rape, that blames victims, that uses the word "rape" in contexts such as "I just raped this exam". By focusing exclusively on this perp, we are ignoring the majority of offenders/sexual assaults as well as the reasons that sexual violence occurs.

The majority of sexual assaults are perpetrated by someone the victim knows - family, "friends", partners. Stranger rapists get high profiles in the media but they are by no means the most common.

I have worked in this field for the past decade, and I have seen firsthand how "tips" impact survivors. Individuals who have been victimized by sexual violence are impacted by "tips" in that they believe that they are somehow at fault, that they "contributed" to the sexual assault.

In regards to your parallel to murder victims, I believe that people who have been murdered are for the most part treated very different than those who have been sexual assaulted. (I say for the most part because people who work in the sex trade, for example, are often blamed for their victimization).

As for pedophiles on the loose, there ARE pedophiles on the loose. And these pedophiles are most often people the children know. Stranger Danger campaigns do little to help children who are being abused by people they love and trust.

On a side note, I am frustrated that with the media exposure of this offender, there is not accompanying information for all survivors on where to get support. This media exposure can be very triggering for individuals and families impacted by sexual violence, and it is important to let the community know that there are agencies out there which provide non-judgmental support to survivors of sexual violence.

The Sexual Assault Centre of Edmonton provides a 24 hour crisis line (780 423 4121) and counselling and education services. The U of A Sexual Assault Centre also provides support and information (780-492-9771). SAFFRON: Strathcona Sexual Assault Centre (780 449 0900) also provides counselling and support.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

GRad — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 00:57:07 -0000

^^ monika, I think your argument falls apart when we consider that the man committing these acts is an unreasonable criminal. Yes, the offender commits the assault, but he is obviously not going to stop, no matter how many flyers or informational meetings we provide imploring him to do so. All this about the "rape culture" is irrelevant when we consider that there IS a rapist on the loose, there IS NOTHING WE CAN DO to get him to stop aside from CATCHING HIM.

I say again, if there was a murderer prowling the streets, I would expect the police and others to provide guidelines for everyone- man or woman- to follow to protect themselves from becoming a victim. Does this mean we are "blaming the people" or "focusing on the victim's actions"? Of course not. We are trying to give people the means to protect themselves from an unreasonable person.

If there was a pedophile on the loose, we would ask parents to have their kids in by a certain time and encourage parents to keep close taps on their teens. Are we blaming the children, then?

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

monika — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:05:49 -0000

Excellent post.

Madmonq, when we focus on the behaviour of women we are not focusing on the behaviour of those who perpetrate violence against women. We are suggesting that there is something that a woman can do to prevent sexual assault when in fact the only person who decides whether or not a sexual assault occurs is the offender.

There is no right or wrong way for a woman (or man) to respond to being sexually assaulted. Whatever the person does to survive is the "rigth thing".

I don't like the idea of suggesting that women should know how to defend themselves because 1) It suggests that there is a "correct" way to respond to being sexually assaulted. We don't know how we will respond when being sexually assaulted; many people "freeze" and this is a perfectly valid response, 2) It once again focuses on the behaviour of the woman versus the perpetrator.

I don't think any of us (feminists, anti-violence activists) are suggesting it is WRONG for a woman to do what she needs to feel safe and/or survive a sexual assault. Rather, we are challenging the typical focus on the woman's behaviour and saying rather it should be on the perpetrator and his actions, as well as a society which condones and perpetuates violence against women.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

Holly — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:30:20 -0000

That second picture really got me, I love it. I especially love at the bottom it says 'The sisterhood is watching!' People need to unite, that is the only way we are going to succeed and rape is going to stop. We need to unite and just like the sign says, when one woman is raped it is a rape of all women; it is an injustice to all women.

Re: Another Woman Assaulted by the Garneau Rapist

madmonq — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:20:27 -0000

I am not trying to be confrontational or ignorant. I believe the men are responsible for the crime. But can you please explain why oh why a woman should not know how to defend herself? It is not morally wrong in any way for them to do so.